Ah, I’ll blame that on @whiteboar who threw me off the scent. 
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Maybe it doesn’t make any sense, @sooner. I’ve been known to say things on rare occasions that are only about half right at best. 
This topic is about lurking versus participating actively. I was responding to a comment by @salbls, to the effect that it can be daunting to jump into a conversation with people who are as knowledgeable (and passionate, I will add) as so many Hive members are. S/he used the word “intimidating.”
All I’m saying is that maybe it’s possible for us to pause from time to time in the course of our mounting arguments, citing statistics, adducing historical parallels etc., and take a moment to (1) grant the possible validity of another point of view, (2) join another commenter in thinking through the implications of his or her opinion, (3) ask a follow-up question that invites further dialogue, (4) offer encouragement when someone has obviously taken an emotional stand on an issue of apparent significance to him or her, (5) praise a well-crafted comment or especially insightful point, (6) acknowledge another commenter’s success in (partly) changing our own opinions, and (7) honestly examine our own tone and choice of words, always asking ourselves whether we can do an even better job of keeping debate vigorous and productive, but not so “adversarial,” as @cwr puts it, that otherwise interested, well-meaning, well-informed people are deterred from actively participating.
The Hive has certainly conversed about this topic before. For all organizations, in my view, it can be worthwhile to revisit from time to time the unwritten rules and prevailing ethos.
As I tried to indicate in my original post, I have been greatly enjoying my experience here on The Hive. Moreover, I recognize that those handful of you who have been here for many, many years have a feeling of pride and even ownership over what happens here. It’s a great place — so great that it’s worth sharing and being shared by as many people as it can reach.
After all, “kum ba yah” just means, “Come by here.”
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If anyone is lurking, and has something to say about my (often rambling, partially incomprehensible) posts, please say! Even if you disagree, I have no worries about being dog piled. I like dog piles …
Especially when they look like this (the cutest one I saw on pinterest, not mine, image watermarked!).
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I agree. Ive been a TPM reader since Josh first started the blog in 2000, but It seems that those of us who are infrequent posters can’t make our voices heard very easily. It’s difficult to break into a conversation if you are not known to the group.
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Starting a thread is a fine introduction. Not all topics succeed (most of mine die young), but there is no risk, only reward. Be welcome, thanks for joining.
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Is it something that people say, or a general attitude that makes you feel unwelcome or uninvited? How have you experienced this kind of difficulty?
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It is true that familiarity with people makes access easier. When you know the personalities and have history with them half the work is already done; you have a fair idea of where they are coming from and don’t have to mutually re-invent the wheel every time. But we are all here to build relationships, no?
My experience with the growing membership is that if I have not bitten within the first day, in some cases the first hour, there is so much to read that I don’t bother and go elsewhere. It is very difficult to join a conversation when a dozen people have already posted 30 times.
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It is the sense of familiarity demonstrated by the responses. Just like a greeting between sisters is different than between strangers.
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Not difficult, just time consuming because of the catch-up. But if you have not commented or even read the posts yet even though you have seen the thread before, you probably are not interested in the subject anyway.
For some of us, difficult and time-consuming can mean the same thing.
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Thanks for participating in this thread. I’ve just started a new topic on favorite political films and books. I hope you’ll consider posting a comment there!
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I’m late to the topic but it gives me a chance to comment. In the past I’ve contributed, started topics (134 the counter says) and generally been more active. Over the past year or so two things in particular have changed my entire MO. I moved from NJ to MN (not news to many of you). More important recently has been two trips back to be with my mom. In November I was away for a month and in March I was away for two weeks. During those total six weeks I was without internet access unless I drove a mile or so to the public library.
After I’ve been away from the internet and particularly TPM I find it very difficult to return to commenting. I recognize plenty of Primates and notice a few new ones. But the topics have generally moved on and some (Russians everywhere) are difficult to grasp to the point of my being unable to do much more than learn from others. I’m taking the long way round to explaining both why I’m not as active while also suggesting why lurking is sometimes necessary. Time limitations and current topics combine in difficult ways.
The Hive is now quite large and others are carrying the topics. I’m learning a great deal and hope to find ways to contribute again beyond “liking” posts or putting up something from Twitter.
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Hell, I was gone just 3 days or a week and I felt left behind. What I do is watch the “new” threads and jump on the ones that look interesting. It is futile to try and follow all the active threads after being gone for even a few days.
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Minutes.
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Thanks salbls, you stated very well just the way I feel about the Hive. I to was somewhat intimidated when joining in on the conversations. I believe that each one of us have certain areas of more knowledge and experiences and some of us do a whole lot of research and I can learn very much for the experts in the different fields. I do have a pretty diverse background and some threads really get my attention and if I believe I have something to add to the conservation I do so. I know that not everyone always agree with me on some issues, but if I can learn more and add to my knowledge I always come away feeling smarter, more informed and calmer in many cases knowing that I am not the only progressive in the world. In rural Colorado, one can start to question yourself.
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I have made the decision to return to lurking because I have found that I just don’t have the stamina for the kind of rough jousting that sometimes takes place here. I take it much too personally. For a taste of that, see
https://forums.talkingpointsmemo.com/t/be-better-cyberbullying/75996/4.
This post was a slightly disguised version of a post I made in
Discussion: Trump Tweets ‘Peace To ALL Americans’ Upon Charlottesville Anniversary
I just have a personality type that is triggered by the type of rough play that one can find here, and I for my own mental health I have decided that I am just not built for that and it would be better for me to be a passive observer. Which is a shame in a way, for three reasons: I really want to stay connected with the content here, I really educated myself through the process of putting my thoughts into writing after doing the research to make sure that what I was saying was backed by evidence (at least those comments that were not absurd flights of fancy), and I really found some of my interactions with other people here very satisfying and enlightening. But again, I got into waters that are just too deep for me for reasons that neither I nor others can fully understand, and so I need to remove myself from this environment.
God, I hope I haven’t invited yet another round of snark at my expense for other’s amusement! I guess that’s the risk one takes whenever one puts one’s thoughts on display in a public forum.
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You’re not alone–I think there are a lot of lurkers here. Test the waters–try a post or two. See how it goes. You may be surprised. I think quite a few of us would like to hear from the lurkers.
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Not clear what prompted this. Scanning through some of your recent activity (like the thread you started re: the similarities between Avenatti and Trump) I don’t see anything going on. But, you do also seem to spend quite bit of time on the public threads, which are total shit-shows, IMO. I almost never venture out of the Hive and into the public forum, as it’s exactly like you say, it’s like a bunch of people regressed back to high school, seeking popularity through verbal dominance. It’s a bizarro place, for sure.
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Yes, I’ve discovered that. I recently read an article on lurking, trying to see what it is and what people think about that. Apparently lurkers used to be viewed as resource- and content-stealers, but over time they came to be more appreciated by advertisers and by the fact that they disseminate information – sort of like bees carrying pollen from one flower to another. Also, lurking is apparently the standard way for a person to discover the community norms for communication and content.
Being totally ignorant of this, I just dive-bombed my way into discussion threads, not always trying to read the prior 157 posts before making contribution number 158. At first I was pretty much ignored, or got a Heh! or Good Point or two, which told me that people were pretty tolerant around here. Then I started to get bolder, and came up with some pretty good stuff and started to post more frequently. Very recently I have discovered my own voice and have been posting more confidently.
But I made the mistake of actually disagreeing with some of the old hands here on a particularly emotional day – the anniversary of Charlottesville. I got attacked and shamed in the most juvenile ways, which shocked me, and to which I am pretty much defenseless because I can’t stand to speak using the standard internet tropes and slang – LOL – and I am untrained in the art of verbal warfare. I rigorously stick to facts and logic, like the mathematician that I am (full professor, thank you very much!), and I just have no defense to incoming snark and I just cannot lower myself to engage in the ad hominem shiv below the ribs. It’s a little like Trump vs. Mueller – the former throws everything, the latter holds himself aloof and lets his indictments do his talking.
And so after trying to run down every attack on my reasoning, my character, and my manhood, which took an all-nighter and about 14 consecutive hours hunched over my laptop to defend my honor and my reputation, I decided that I had had enough.
But I have discovered in the last 24 hours or so that I am much happier creating a topic, writing a comment when I really have something meaningful to say and feel passionate about, and I have been pleasantly surprised that, for the most part, I have not been attacked and shamed, but have been responded to intelligently and respectfully. So perhaps I will stick to the Hive, as you seem to be suggesting.
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Also, when behind the firewall, your comments are not on a goggle search, if that matters to you.
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